Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

[Katzenfreund]

Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

German court upholds eviction of smoker

A court in Germany has ruled that a man who smokes in a rented flat can be evicted if the smoke gets into public areas of an apartment block.

Smoking is banned in public places in Germany, but as the court confirmed, people do have a basic right to smoke in their own homes.

Here are the facts of the case:

Friedhelm Adolfs, 75 and a heavy smoker, has lived in the flat for 40 years.

The landlady and other residents said that they could smell the smoke in the stairwell.

The accused said that there had been more smoke previously, his deceased wife having also smoked in the flat.

He argued that his flat was not completely sealed and he could not help it if smoke seeped under the door to public areas.

The landlady said that he should have allowed smoke to escape through open windows.

http://www.dw.de/german-court-upholds-eviction-of-smoker/a-16988876

Since news of the case became public, Adolfs has become something of a symbolic figure for pro-smoking groups in Germany. With their support, he will appeal.

And now your verdict.
If you were a judge setting a precedent in such a pioneering case, how would you decide? Can someone smoke in his own home with closed doors, or should he first make sure no smoke escapes, irrespective of how (im)practical that is?

 

[bum4evr]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

I am a non-smoker and I don't want smoke anywhere near me - its not fair for me to die because of someone else's habit. My GF smokes but she does it on the patio, and most people in my apartment smoke so I am sure I breath in a tiny bit of second hand smoke, but I will just have to live with that.

 

[NavyRet]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

Find a new place to live Herr Adolfs; preferably one in a smokers only complex with walls and airlocks.

 

[Dr Pickles]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

I would arbitrate the case by requiring the government to pay for 50% of retrofitting the entire building to prevent smoke from escaping private areas and affecting public ones (they passed the law). I would require the building owner to pay the remaining 50% to retrofit the building. I would allow the building owner to increase rent to help pay for "improvements" (renters elected the government). Owner would have one year to complete the retrofit and could not raise rent until they were complete.

On a beautiful winter day in Siberia, encouraged by the warm rays of the sun in a clear blue sky, a little sparrow left the security of his nest to fly and frolic in the air, but the 40o below zero temperature quickly overcame the imprudent bird who fell to the ground, frozen, and found himself buried in the snow where he would certainly have died in an instant. But by chance a cow trotted by at that moment, and at the very spot where the sparrow was struggling for his last breath, she dropped a large soft cow-dung on top of the bird. The warmth of this dung-bath resuscitated the moribund sparrow. He was so happy, he raised his head out of the cow-shit and started to twitter joyfully, which drew the attention of a wandering homeless cat who delicately pulled the sparrow out of the shit and devoured him.

The moral of this story: Your enemy is not necessarily the one who shits on your head. Your friend, however, is not necessarily the one who pulls you out of the shit. And besides, one should never twitter when one is buried in shit.

 

[kirk1701®]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

He lives there but he rents
People have the right to stink up their own home, home that they bought and paid for so the guy does not own the apartment therefore he should be fined.

They recently passed a smoking ban here in our city, I have to laugh at this the VFW (Veterans of foreign wars) & American Legion tried to claim the place is not open to the public and it was a private club therefore not subject to the smoking ban :whistling:

They were also fined to which they hired lawyers and they got involved, tried to say it was unconstitutional and you'd think this was going to the supreme court by the way they were fighting this. :lol:

In the end, they lost, they paid the fines and now VFW and American legion are smoke free also
And open to the public as they are in every other city in our country.

 

[EMS]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

ok for those that are panicking over second hand smoke....it was proven some yrs ago that the likelihood of dying from it are slim UNLESS you are in a sealed room with someone that is smoking for over 10 thousand hours...that's a s**tload of hours. Next, if the landlady didn't want smokers in her property/properties then it should have been in the contract! I do believe that having windows open would be the best bet tbh. I only smoke rollies indoors with the windows open orrrrrrrrrrrrrr in my back garden and occasionally and I do mean occasionally if I am driving. There are far worse things to worry about than some old codger smoking in his flat after losing his wife....I think the courts should have laughed at this and thrown it out...


Whilst we are on about this subject...if you want to blame anyone....blame the cigarette manufacturers...its them that put that killer chemicals in the filters and the chemical processes that tobacco goes through....Proper tobacco has none of the harmful chemicals in it...

 

[d25trident]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

how this up for debate? smoking kills and so does second hand smoke.

if he lived next to a primary school and the children complained, would it be different.

if youre an aloholic and you piss on my doorstep, do i have a right to complain? smokers need to realise that they are killing themselves and everyone around them.


and 'pro smoking groups?' fuckin lol, thats like saying pro heroin groups or pro alcholism groups.

good riddance to the dirt smoker.

next.

Your talking pure mince mate... The chap in question does not live near a school, and why would a alcoholic want to pee on your doorstep!! Fact in the uk the smoke ban has killed the pubs. As a non smoker if I went into a pub my choice I deal with it, now it's worse because the poor buggers are tabbing by the exits, which I have to pass anyway. If they want to smoke, let them it's there cash not mine. Does not bother me, you say good riddance to the smoker you will also say good riddance to the £4.80 per pkt of 20 c our goverment make on tax. And b4 you start on the drain on the health service, remember all them over sized burger munching people also...they don't bring joy to our health service, again there choice. God forgive they dump on my doorstep....

Now as ems said, when you rent, there are stipulations ie, no pets , non smokers and negative dhss, this was not the case,,, what he wants to do in his own home is his choice, maybe he could open a window, problem solved..

You my friend need to open your eyes and live the life you want to and be a leader not a follower and see the bigger picture.

 

[d25trident]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

Politics? Sorry mate you lost me, can you explain please..

 

[EMS]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

I'm going to walk away from pacha1's comment...I believe that a reduction in attitude would get them further...You don't see accident and emergency piled high with smokers at the weekends, you don't see police having to break up fights at the weekend because of smokers, as tri said...our government would lose a lot of money if smoking was banned...they get in excess of £10 billion a year from tobacco products in tax revenue...now if I know one thing....the general public aren't going to be too happy about another hike in taxes. And I'll give up when I want to and when I'm good and ready....Everyone bricks themselves about the harmful effects of cigarettes..well, here's a little something for you to think about my grandad smoked 40 a day and a packet of King Edward cigars at christmas..he DIDN'T die from cancer or any illness to do with smoking. He was over 80...I know people who have died from alcohol a lot younger than that. :hmmm:

 

[SHALLY]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

:hmmm: if people dont want smoke or smokers near them think hard ,do you complain about exhaust omissions .DONT HEAR ,anyone calling for a ban on cars.A case of double standards im afraid

 

[nevyn68]

Re: Pioneering Court Case on Smoking – How would you decide?

It's easy.
When the guys lease is up and he wants to renew then add the clause that smoking is not allowed in the building.
If he wants to stay then he has to stop or go outside.
I did say it was easy.