How do we increase activity?

[Oldone3pp]

What can I say, Well with the influx of social media amongst other things like the almighty dollar, most forums these days have gone quiet in the general sections, leaving only the hardcore members to carry on. While it's easy to start up a forum and draw people to it for them to share content (Downloads) the opposite is true to get members involved in the GD sections (You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink) It's not the fault of the forum/staff or the existing hardcore members, it's just how it is and always has been.

The recent attack on BW has not had that much effect, as all of you are still here, with the exception of a few members, and they dropped out well before the attack. So has it really hurt us? ofc none of us liked it and were angry, in reality though we are still here and continuing on.

Staff involvement in GD I can't speak for the others, but those that know/remember me from old BW etc know that I have never been much for words in the GD sections and only stick my head in from time to time, reason being is I don't have enough knowledge on a lot of the topics that you guys create/ talk about to contribute anything. simple as that.

Member involvement in GD, it's there for you guys, if you don't use it, ofc conversations will dry up, This I've seen happen so many times (fwbb, wusa, vurmin, wbb) to name a few, even old BW had it's quiet times. The novelty wears off, and just like when BW was re-started everything was buzzing in GD for about 2 weeks then everything started slowing down.

It was asked recently if we could have a forum section/subforum for serious discussion, this I don't have a problem with, however since the attack and in order to stave of any future attacks some things in acp have been blocked off, unfortunately by doing this it has also been blocked off for me, so atm I'm unable to add any new forum sections.

Lastly it's commendable and appreciated by myself and my fellow staff members all the efforts you guys have done to try and bring new members to the forum/GD and the contributions you have made thus far. I urge you all to keep the light burning bright and not to let it go out just because some things are not happening just as you would want them to.

 

[kirk1701®]

Re: Times are changing

I'd hate to see forums become a thing of the past
I don't care much for social media, hell I'm anti social :salute: and like to pick a group of a few people like here to joke, have fun with and call home away from home.

I say if the majority want to go facebooking let up go, leave us hardcore's here to make our own fun, laugh at our own jokes and create our own virtual family, small as it is hey that's fine with me :salute:

 

[Katzenfreund]

Re: Times are changing

Yes, it’s a sad situation, even a little depressive for those who have been here during more lively times. It was so encouraging to see old DirtyWarez members joining and announcing their joy at finding their home again. Some got VIPs, others joined activity groups to get colors. And then they just disappeared.

In my view, it became more pronounced during the Summer holidays and got worse after the hack, though the latter was by no means the cause, while Summer holidays were just an excuse too. The real reasons are deeper and involve competition from social media, but also a shift in surfer behavior – the old excitement of boards has worn off. If it’s any consolation, the problem is general across…the board and involves all boards of all kinds. It has also helped in identifying the few loyal members on whom the board can rely.

I remember fearing, from experience elsewhere, about such a situation developing, which led me to start a thread with suggestions on how to prevent it in time. Some of the suggestions were not followed, including the staff actively leading the discussions as was happening at the old DirtyWarez (actually, relatively speaking, Oldone was one of the more active staff, others were worse). In fairness, I can’t say that those suggestions would have prevented the developments, but they could have slowed down and postponed the decline.

The worst part is that once the decline sets in, it’s difficult to reverse. Members who try to come back find the place deserted and leave again, possibly for good. Drastic measures are needed. Sending massive emails to all members was tried by other boards with only limited success. So, before those emails are sent, something drastic has to be implemented to attract people. A new sub-forum for serious discussion will do nothing towards this end, it will only split the few threads that appear.

So what do we do about it? It would now be opportune to start a thread inviting suggestions on how to deal with the situation. Though the right section for such a thread would be Feedback, it may actually be seen by more people in GD. Now, I could start this thread, but it would be more effective if an admin did, as Oldone started this one. And though this present thread could serve the purpose, it would be clearer if the title was something like “Suggestions on how to increase board activity”.

 

[Oldone3pp]

For all intent and purposes I've taken your advice (Katz) and changed the title, I can't see the point in wasting a good topic/post just to start another along similar lines.

Thanks Katz and captain kirk for your input. What can be done to create activity around the forum for old & new members alike. I've thought about having "MOTM" (member of the month) on the new BW with VIP given to the monthly winner, also thought about a return of a monthly newsletter. The thing is now we have a project team things like these I believe are their domain. So what else is there! Competitions maybe have some kind of award for best GFXix same could be done I guess for would be shutter clickers with their pics voted on. What else do we have that can be made into a competition of sorts?

The idea behind having a (serious discussion section) does have some merit, as it does away with the jibes/silliness and 1 liner replies so members can concentrate on a serious debate/discussion without the interruptions (I guess that leaves EMS out) and it would create some activity with members having to find links etc to back up their claims with whatever they are discussing at the time.

 

[Katzenfreund]

Oldone already made some excellent suggestions.

Before I proceed with mine, a comment on:
Member of Month
This is a proven motivator. The problem is that under low activity conditions pretty soon everybody around becomes life VIP, with the rank losing its value.
A compromise would be to award the MOM a month’s VIP access, plus on winning MOM for third time (not necessarily consecutively) the VIP becomes permanent. This will make the MOMs keep up activity and not RIP afterwards.

VIP Section
Before we can use VIP as a strong motivator, we should make the VIP section more attractive.
For example, we could include quality warez, s.a. cracks guaranteed clean and working. Those with VIP access should be encouraged to post there such warez they’ve found elsewhere and tried themselves.
Also new Cam & TS movies with proven good pic and sound to save wasting time on inferior versions.
Plus priority in filling requests.
We could also encourage the posting of premium accounts.

Existing VIPs
Existing VIPs should be informed politely that, in fairness, a minimum activity is required to maintain the rank, while prolonged total inactivity will lead to its loss.

Staff Members Participation
All members of staff should be advised that they are expected to support participation in discussions.
A special General Section mod could be appointed, preferably with the rank of Elite Mod, that would have the duty to not only moderate but also lead, guide and foment discussions. He may be relieved of other duties if necessary.

Elite Members
The rank of Elite Member to be awarded after e.g. 1000 posts in General Section to encourage activity.

Requests
Some board activity plus a minimum post count should be required before submitting a request.

News Section
I have reservations about the News section being flooded with RSS feeds that push down and drown members’ own threads, thus discouraging their creation and follow-up.

Community Team
This is really a project for the Community Team, that should in any case be mobilized for the purpose of increasing board activity.

It is understood that all changes will be announced and advertised in emailed bulletins/newsletters to all members by the Community Team.

 

[bmark240]

Unfortunately there is no cure for the situation. It's basically like the tidal flows around the world.
People come and people go, whilst others just lurk & leech.
I visit here every day but have become depressed with the lack of input from other members.
Maybe a few ideas from Katz's suggestions could be implemented but however, I feel that mostly it will scare away users from here.

There are too many people being 'pushed down' and others given meaningless titles that smacks of 'Elitism'....

What did George Orwell write in the classic parable Animal Farm?:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

 

[bum4evr]

Hmm... I kinda thought the whole handing out of the ViP status the way it was done seemed like a popularity contest.. and by giving some people a private place to chat you end up:

A: reducing posts in general discussion because now your best casual posters have a private place to post when they have a general issue to discuss and

B: you alienate the social posters who were not lucky/popular enough to get ViP.

As for for the decline of the social sections - I think some of it has to do with the fact that English is the language spoken here - which although its the norm on forums, when I look at the shoutbox I see so much broken English that I suspect that many members feel their English is not good enough to post here. Like today "hi .. introduce my name is iwan" - that persons English may be good enough to say hello - but holding a discussion may be another matter and difficult for some of them. Perhaps have a few sub-sections for 5 other popular languages in the world and find mods for each one who speaks that language. And perhaps those mods could help them learn a little better English

Since Oldone3pp mentioned the "attack" I will say that I don't know if it cost this board any members - but it certainly didn't help attract any.. and the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.. not because of the attack itself, but because members were left in the dark about why it happened.. now some people might say "well we are just members, its none of our business" but others may say "well you expect people to post here socially and feel like we are part of the board family, well then admins should at least let us know whats going on.. like if the board gets sold.. or a new admin is added... But I am starting to suspect that many boards like this one who have "multiple admins", (here, mecho, FWBB) the HEAD admin is just not a very social person and likes to keep admin affairs very private. And I think that hurts boards like this more then it helps the family atmosphere and attracts social posters. But I suspect it may not be the other admins's fault, they may be left in the dark too. (Wbb has just one admin with 14,000+ posts)

Also I like Katz Idea of Elite Members thats just based on post count in GD.

 

[Oldone3pp]

I think you guys forget the purpose of why some members were given vip status, it had nothing to do with whether you were popular or not, it was based on who were vip on old BW and if they deserved it. Here is the original vip topic

shroom wrote

Lots of you used to be VIP on the old DirtyWarez and lost your rank, so this is a chance to get it back.

The VIP section has just been added so dont expect to much apart from the rank for now, I have just ordered a rapidleech account to post in there.

Please nominate a member for VIP status, 6 members will be given the rank for now and Oldone3pp will make the final decision.

bum4evr wrote

A: reducing posts in general discussion because now your best casual posters have a private place to post when they have a general issue to discuss and

I can tell you as can Katz, that the vip section is just as dead as the general discussion section

bum4evr wrote

B: you alienate the social posters who were not lucky/popular enough to get ViP.

Don't you think that sounds a little bit like sour grapes? It was not based on a popularity contest nor was the OP's topic put up to be one.

People having probs with english has been the same on most forums for years, whether it really restricts them from making a post/reply in GD is another matter. Since the incursion of social media and autoposters people have steadily moved away from the social aspect of warez forums, and adding extra non english sections will not change a thing.

The attack geez c'mon who was left in the dark! you were all at Vurmin when it all was going on, there are pages & pages about it in the chatbox archive, you all read it and commented.

The forum being sold or adding another admin, or a mod for that matter don't make any difference to how the forum is run, it's not something that members vote on whether to allow it or not, we do tell you guys stuff, but surely some things we don't need to go into every detail. Some admin affairs are meant to be private, being social does not mean you have to tell people about private matters.

So far this topic has attracted about 69/70 views and only 6 replies...............

 

[kirk1701®]

I know what we need, gossip everyone loves something to talk about and there's no one stirring the pot causing trouble and an uproar to get every ones attention and ruffle some feathers.

Yea, every one knows where I'm heading we need that guy back :whistling:
Call it entertainment :mrgreen:

It's that or I throw a paper airplane over the great wall of China to my neighbors with DirtyWarez address on it :hmmm:

 

[bum4evr]

Don't you think that sounds a little bit like sour grapes? It was not based on a popularity contest nor was the OP's topic put up to be one.

I kinda remember it a tad differently - but unfortunately that topic is gone forever due to the attack. And my grapes can't be all that sour because I still post here...

But consider this.. how did all the vip on the old Dirtywarez GET their vip status? did they pay for it? for a high post count? did admins hand it out to their buddies ?

The answer.. D. All of the above.


But Kirk.. we all made a blood oath never to speak "that guys" name again..

Instead of "him", I will try and be that guy who stirs the pot and causes trouble and an uproar.

 

[Oldone3pp]

Your wrong the topic is still here it's in quarantine atm, how do you think I was able to quote it.

bum4evr wrote

how did all the vip on the old Dirtywarez GET their vip status? did they pay for it? for a high post count? did admins hand it out to their buddies

I can honestly say I don't know most if not all were already VIPs when I first joined there and I was not privvy to what went on behind the scene at that time, after I became a mod there any new VIPs were voted on by staff for MOTM which of course gave vip status, and from what I remember in the staff area on old bw that's how it was always done.

 

[NavyRet]

OK, here's the way I see it. I'll probably be told I'm FOS, but frankly, I don't care:

Presently, there are 550 users on line, 49 of which are actual members. That leaves 501 people browsing the forum, getting links, whatever, without signing up. When people can have the advantages without taking ownership (by actually signing up), why should they contribute? In other words, why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free? I believe you would have more people participating if they were forced to sign up before accessing any part of the forum except the guest download area.

And don't tell me that guests don't see download links, otherwise why would there constantly be hundreds and hundreds of guests on line if they weren't getting some benefit. I'm damn sure I wouldn't stay at a warez forum if I never got any links.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm s-s-stickin' to it.

Edit: Well, I just logged out and tried to access links as a guest - yep, can see all links without being a registered user. Only thing I couldn't do was make a post - and why would I want to if I could get every link on the forum without registering?

 

[bum4evr]

On mecho we don't make people post to see the download links - but they DO have to make a post in introduction forum if they want to post in a download section OR use the search feature - but you know what 99.999% of them do? They make one post and we never hear from them again. Which is exactly what would happen here if you forced them to sign up.

But it does have one advantage I can think of - The boards membership numbers would go up - AND you would have their email address if you ever needed to send out a mass email to them all.

on another board I know of - not only do you have to sign up to see the download forums - but for a month the admin coded it so that any member who entered a download topic had to say THX to that uploader FIRST - before he could see the download links in that topic - but after a while he removed that feature.. probably was costing him members and complaints from uploaders.

 

[Oldone3pp]

OK, here's the way I see it. I'll probably be told I'm FOS, but frankly, I don't care:

Presently, there are 550 users on line, 49 of which are actual members. That leaves 501 people browsing the forum, getting links, whatever, without signing up. When people can have the advantages without taking ownership (by actually signing up), why should they contribute? In other words, why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free? I believe you would have more people participating if they were forced to sign up before accessing any part of the forum except the guest download area.

And don't tell me that guests don't see download links, otherwise why would there constantly be hundreds and hundreds of guests on line if they weren't getting some benefit. I'm damn sure I wouldn't stay at a warez forum if I never got any links.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm s-s-stickin' to it.

Edit: Well, I just logged out and tried to access links as a guest - yep, can see all links without being a registered user. Only thing I couldn't do was make a post - and why would I want to if I could get every link on the forum without registering?

What does FOS mean? :shrug:

There is a logical reason NV for guests being able to access links and that is the DDL sites that posts are submitted to, it's how we get BW out there to the world if we don't allow guests access to links then BW would be blacklisted on the DDL sites and it's very hard to get unblacklisted. The DDL sites insist that guests have access without having to join.

DirtyWarez DDL submit rules

You must add one of our linkback codes on all your webpages.
Link directly to your download page, not your main page.
Guests must be able to access all downloads submitted. No forced registration or CPA widgets of any kind.
No frame-breaking JavaScript, Java or ActiveX plug-ins, install scripts on the website.
No popups or pop-unders.
Format Submitted Download Titles correctly.
No demos or shareware without a crack.
Forum Sites: No forced registration. Make download links, passwords and the forum category visible to guests i.e. no hide hack.
Submissions must not contain fake/misleading links.
No BitTorrent, eDonkey, Magnet or similiar links.
For full submission rules and site rating info click HERE.

bum4evr wrote

But it does have one advantage I can think of - The boards membership numbers would go up - AND you would have their email address if you ever needed to send out a mass email to them all.

But does it increase board activity which is basically what this topic is about. I mean like we can try a lot of different things to gain membership, but it's the activity and continued activity in the GD area that contributes to the growth of a community that is what's needed here.

 

[Katzenfreund]

My comments on matters raised.

Informing members: A better communication and information of members helps them feel they’re part of the community.

VIPs: Rewarding members for loyalty is an essential element for keeping the most active ones while motivating the rest, and was the policy of the old DirtyWarez. However, seen retrospectively, it does seem that some VIPs were granted rather hastily, possibly based on past performance at the old place. But it doesn’t look like the awards contributed to the decline. Indeed, among the absentees, actually the most striking ones, are many VIPs. Hence my suggestion in my previous post.

While the hack certainly didn’t help the situation, it equally certainly didn’t cause it. The decline had started and already progressed well before. As for the once thriving discussions at WBB, they’re now almost as bad as here despite the size difference.

Guests seeing links: I agree with NR that guests shouldn’t see download links. In fact, the matter was raised early on and we got assurances that the guests were blocked from seeing links. However, seeing Oldone’s explanation above, it seems there are practical problems. It would be nice if a solution could be found to make guests register instead of being a bandwidth burden as leechers.

Foreign language sections: Unfortunately not practical. Too many languages and if the English section struggles, others will be dead.

But, in the last analysis, though criticism of past events may help identify mistakes for not repeating them, what is really required here are constructive suggestions on what we do to increase participation now.

 

[Dr Pickles]

Only a few have commented... Why? Maybe because so many users only occasionally drop in to chat. Of those that are reading and not responding, it could be because of an impression of 'what's the use'. The impression is that thoughts and ideas (Feedback) is not considered let alone appreciated. I know all ideas are not good, let alone practicable - but the practice of saying NO to ideas within minutes of posting by someone on high serves only to quash discussion of the idea, let alone allow further ideas from being posted. I've seen many common sense, time-saving ideas from staff brought up by multiple members ignored or squashed in this manner. We had an (over)eager graphic guy offering his thoughts, ideas, talents TOTALLY ignored and he's now gone. Hell, clicking on Unread Posts STILL brings you to the top of that page and not to the new post! No wonder people are just skimming this site.

What does DDL mean? :shrug: Well what ever it does mean, it seems that a deliberate decision has been made to use that 'service' for what ever reason and the cost of that 'service' is to allow Guests to see all links. My question is the cost still worth the service?

Well NavyRet, I don't think you're FOS and agree with you. And generally speaking, Katz has been pretty spot on with just about every post he's ever made.

Kirk's (and Katz) idea of inviting in a professional agitator would certainly generate activity. More people would read posts, but would they constructively contribute to the discussion at hand? - I think not. If you decide to go this route, then you might as well rename this place to "As the Stomach Turns".

 

[Oldone3pp]

Only a few have commented... Why? Maybe because so many users only occasionally drop in to chat. Of those that are reading and not responding, it could be because of an impression of 'what's the use'. The impression is that thoughts and ideas (Feedback) is not considered let alone appreciated. I know all ideas are not good, let alone practicable - but the practice of saying NO to ideas within minutes of posting by someone on high serves only to quash discussion of the idea, let alone allow further ideas from being posted. I've seen many common sense, time-saving ideas from staff brought up by multiple members ignored or squashed in this manner. We had an (over)eager graphic guy offering his thoughts, ideas, talents TOTALLY ignored and he's now gone. Hell, clicking on Unread Posts STILL brings you to the top of that page and not to the new post! No wonder people are just skimming this site.

What does DDL mean? :shrug: Well what ever it does mean, it seems that a deliberate decision has been made to use that 'service' for what ever reason and the cost of that 'service' is to allow Guests to see all links. My question is the cost still worth the service?

Well NavyRet, I don't think you're FOS and agree with you. And generally speaking, Katz has been pretty spot on with just about every post he's ever made.

Kirk's (and Katz) idea of inviting in a professional agitator would certainly generate activity. More people would read posts, but would they constructively contribute to the discussion at hand? - I think not. If you decide to go this route, then you might as well rename this place to "As the Stomach Turns".

We are only talking about creating more activity in the GD area, not about adding or implementing mods/scripts to the forum to make things easier.

Explanation of DDL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_definition_language

DirtyWarez DDL yes we have our own as well

http://ddl.Dirtywarez.org/

There is no cost to using a DDL site and like forums they have rules that people submitting content to them must abide by. The purpose is to bring traffic to the forum, more views means more traffic more traffic means a higher traffic rank which determines the popularity of the forum, out of this we might get some new registered members, also the higher the rank/popularity of a forum increases the interest in the forum and cost of a forum if it were to be sold.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/Dirtywarez.org

 

[NavyRet]

There is a logical reason NV for guests being able to access links and that is the DDL sites that posts are submitted to, it's how we get BW out there to the world if we don't allow guests access to links then BW would be blacklisted on the DDL sites and it's very hard to get unblacklisted. The DDL sites insist that guests have access without having to join.

If that's true, then how can FWBB require users to register before seeing any section of the forum EXCEPT the guest download section while still being linked to DirtyWarez, SuppaDDL, PhazeDDL, and RARdownload at the bottom of every page? Searching DirtyWarez reveals:

FWBB.org is in our Whitelist.

... just sayin" ... And with that, I am withdrawing from this discussion thread.

 

[Oldone3pp]

There is a logical reason NV for guests being able to access links and that is the DDL sites that posts are submitted to, it's how we get BW out there to the world if we don't allow guests access to links then BW would be blacklisted on the DDL sites and it's very hard to get unblacklisted. The DDL sites insist that guests have access without having to join.

If that's true, then how can FWBB require users to register before seeing any section of the forum EXCEPT the guest download section while still being linked to DirtyWarez, SuppaDDL, PhazeDDL, and RARdownload at the bottom of every page? Searching DirtyWarez reveals:

FWBB.org is in our Whitelist.

... just sayin" ...

Fwbb is not submitting content from the general d/load sections only from the guest download section

Atm the moment we don't have enough content in our DirtyWarez Uploads section to do this, so we have to rely on the general d/load section.

 

[Dr Pickles]

Only a few have commented... Why? Maybe because so many users only occasionally drop in to chat. Of those that are reading and not responding, it could be because of an impression of 'what's the use'. The impression is that thoughts and ideas (Feedback) is not considered let alone appreciated. I know all ideas are not good, let alone practicable - but the practice of saying NO to ideas within minutes of posting by someone on high serves only to quash discussion of the idea, let alone allow further ideas from being posted. I've seen many common sense, time-saving ideas from staff brought up by multiple members ignored or squashed in this manner. We had an (over)eager graphic guy offering his thoughts, ideas, talents TOTALLY ignored and he's now gone. Hell, clicking on Unread Posts STILL brings you to the top of that page and not to the new post! No wonder people are just skimming this site.

We are only talking about creating more activity in the GD area, not about adding or implementing mods/scripts to the forum to make things easier

I said nothing about adding scripts, although they are part of the ideas/Feedback one would expect Users/Staff to make, IMO. I did point out that a bug of some sort remains unsolved - and it appears that there is no urgency in resolving it. My point remains that some users have an impression that their Feedback is ignored, or quashed. Those and the Unread Posts issues are all factors leading to user apathy - IMO.

Thanks for the DDL explanation.

it seems that a deliberate decision has been made to use that 'service' for what ever reason and the cost of that 'service' is to allow Guests to see all links. My question is the cost still worth the service?

Rhetorical at this point, my question remains.

For the record, I appreciate that you recognize the decreased activity and are asking for ideas in how to resolve the issue. Yes my comments are blunt, but they are made without any animosity intended.

 

[Oldone3pp]

I'm not going to continue on with issues about guests and DDL sites etc, the topic is about finding ways of increasing member activity in GD, Funstuff and GFX areas

Katz wrote

But, in the last analysis, though criticism of past events may help identify mistakes for not repeating them, what is really required here are constructive suggestions on what we do to increase participation now.

So staying ontopic what are some constructive suggestions?

Unfortunately having things like MOTM and newsletters, competitions or paths that lead to VIP status relies on having enough members that are active/contributing to the forum to make it worthwhile, and just having a couple/few active members is no consolation as the same members would have a Monopoly on everything.

So where do we start?

 

[kirk1701®]

Sorry guys I haven't added any idea's to contribute here but honestly this is an area I'm all out of idea's.

As has already been posted people are flocking to social media for their entertainment and communication and leeching off the download section and not posting. Plain and simple.

 

[Film Boy]

Sadly I don't think there's alot we can do about. It should pick up in the winter when people are inside more ? I have a Facebook account . But I don't post the stuff there that I post here , this board is special to me . FB. :icecream:

 

[kirk1701®]

Sadly I don't think there's alot we can do about. It should pick up in the winter when people are inside more ? I have a Facebook account . But I don't post the stuff there that I post here , this board is special to me . FB. :icecream:

lusone: on all counts
I seen it slow down during the summer months on all boards even before facebook was a twinkle in Mark Z. eye